Branded a pariah by his personal group and going through expulsion on Wednesday, Luxembourgish MEP Fernand Kartheiser insists he was appearing within the identify of diplomacy, not defection when he travelled to Moscow final week.
Euractiv met Kartheiser – who was a double agent for the CIA in the course of the Chilly Conflict – within the European Parliament in Brussels on Monday. The nationwide conservative ECR group, led by Giorgia Meloni’s Brothers of Italy and Poland’s Regulation & Justice occasion, is ready to expel him on Wednesday afternoon over the journey.
What follows is an edited transcript.
You travelled to Moscow final week to fulfill prime Putin allies, together with Deputy International Minister Alexander Grushko and MP Leonid Slutsky. Why did you go?
Kartheiser: I needed to re-establish some form of dialogue. Somebody needed to break the ice. I believed it was essential that we reconnect, particularly at a time when tensions are excessive and channels of communication are frozen.
Everyone is chatting with the Russians, besides the Western Europeans. Everyone else, america, even the Ukrainians, that are in a de facto state of struggle, all people besides the EU.
My intention wasn’t to legitimise something – it was to carry ahead points that matter to the EU, similar to Ukrainian youngsters, humanitarian ceasefires, and the instrumentalisation of migrants on the Polish and Finnish borders.
So your impression from that assembly was that Russia just isn’t all in favour of an arms race with the Europeans?
Kartheiser: They’ve the means to enter it financially and industrially, however I feel that they’re completely not all in favour of going that manner.
I do not see this [idea of] Russian expansionism, a want to reconstitute the Soviet Union or to assault the entire of Western Europe and settle in France or Spain.
The Russians talked about a really attention-grabbing idea: ‘strategic persistence’. I like this expression as a result of they needed to emphasize they don’t seem to be in a rush. I hadn’t heard it.
Is not it simply one other manner of claiming that they imagine time is on their facet?
Kartheiser: That is precisely what it’s. They’ve the time on their facet. They’ve the cash and sources to attend.
However granted you suppose that argument is legitimate, why would they go into any form of diplomatic negotiations in the event that they imagine they’ll simply hold this going?
Kartheiser: No, that’s not how I interpret the idea. I do not suppose that the Russians wish to delay the struggle.
The idea of ‘strategic persistence’ just isn’t an argument for extra killing. It was them saying, ‘we are able to wait till the West is able to discuss to us and to discover a resolution’.
Simply to be clear, do you suppose Russia is the aggressor on this struggle?
Kartheiser: The invasion of 24 February 2022 was a breach of worldwide regulation. Clearly. As a diplomat, I don’t settle for this.
However when you take a look at the historical past of the context, ranging from 2014 within the Russian-speaking areas of Ukraine, you may additionally arrive at completely different interpretations. Nevertheless it’s less than me, it is past my pay grade.
There at the moment are competing narratives even within the West. The US is more and more calling it a proxy struggle. I’m not inventing that – that’s coming from American officers.
Going to Moscow, did you see your self as a diplomat for the European Union?
Kartheiser: Not as a diplomat for the form of the ruling personnel that’s now main the European Union, however the concept of the European Union as a challenge of peace – as we initially made it out to be, that’s an concept very near my coronary heart. However trying on the isolationist insurance policies pursued now, that’s clearly not helpful. I am a diplomat for the unique concept of the European Union as a peace challenge.
What concerning the accusations that you’ve got a gentle spot for Moscow – given your previous intelligence background?
Kartheiser: Within the Chilly Conflict, I used to be approached by the GRU and reported it. I later cooperated with Luxembourg’s authorities and the CIA. I did my obligation. However immediately, I’m appearing for an excellent trigger – peace, not on behalf of a state.
However now, folks like us are questioning you about ulterior motives. Why do not you say a bit extra about what you probably did for the West?
Kartheiser: It is associated to Secret Service 30 years in the past. l’m not going to let you know what I did within the Secret Service.
The ECR group is threatening to throw you out. Are you going to struggle to remain within the group?
Kartheiser: Effectively, now we have a gathering on Wednesday, and I’ll inform them that I reopened a door. I do know there are folks within the group that agree with me, however would possibly follow the occasion line on [the] vote. There’s a majority in opposition to me.
I might in fact spend my time on the telephone, however I do not suppose that it could be very helpful – I favor consuming goodies to be doing that.
